När det gäller Bob så spenderar jag min mesta tid - kan man säga så? - här på L&T. Ni alla här ger så mycket och tonen vi har här är...fin.
Förstås läser jag ER och kanske något annat. Men L&T och ER är the guiding lights. När det gäller nätet. Böcker är en annan historia.
ER har ju ett forum också,och några av er hänger där, har jag sett, via länkar och annat.
Det där forumet kan vara riktigt blahablaha. Men det finns ljusglimtar.
The coming of the Tempest har satt igång oss allihopa. Överallt.
Så, jag har sett ett par trådar, nu under sommaren, där på ER, som har varit "anständiga". Folk har faktiskt försökt diskutera utan att degradera sig själva.
Den sorten finns ju alltid, god bless ém and forgive ém.
Just nu, här och nu, vill jag dela med mig, copy/paste, av en av de mest insiktsfulla "posts", och vi snackar posts här, som jag någonsin sett på ER.
Det här är ingen direkt Tempest-anknytning, nej, men det kommer att bli det. Så småningom, when all hell break´s loose. Ni hajar.
(Det finns ett par till ER-trådar med dignity igång just nu, Tempest works miracles...
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Here's therevelator's post from the Freewheelin’: Bob Dylan, Jonah Lehrer and the Truth thread.
Hasn't Dylan already, for decades, been telling that story in his songs? He said "I've dined with kings, I've been offered wings and I've never been too impressed." If that's a true story, he seems to have already told that one and quite handily dispatched that in a couple of lines.
Possibly this has been brought up here before on ER and I missed it. If someone remembers a prior discussion of this, please point me there.
The Times piece says Dylan got away with alot, including use of composite characters or people who could not even be located as real.
Maybe it wasn't Dylan's intention to get away with anything.
I can't find a copy of "Chronicles" here, but isn't the title "Chronicles: Volume One" ?
Dictionary definitions:
**The definition of a 'chronicle': "an extended account in prose or verse of historical events, sometimes including legendary material, presented in chronological order and without authorial interpretation or comment."
**The definition of a 'legend': "an unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one popularly believed to be historical. A body or collection of such stories. A romanticized or popularized myth of modern times."
I have always thought of, and referred to, "Chonicles: Volume One" as a memoir. I think it's been widely assumed by everyone that it's a memoir and autobiographical.
Maybe it's not. Maybe it's just been assumed that it's a memoir and assumed to be autobiographical.
Maybe it's what Dylan called it: a 'chonicle' - (conflating a lot of definitions here) an extended account of historical events including legendary material without authorial interpretation; unverified, handed down from earlier times; of romanticized or popularized myth of modern times.
What if Dylan wanted to write something that was tangentially referencing his life, but would not be described by him as being truthful? Or what if Dylan simply wanted to write a book relating a history of a life - surrounding a romantic or popular myth (which could certainly be a way of looking at Dylan's life - wow is it mythic) - unverified, handed down......but he never implicitly stated that "Chronicles: Volume One" was factual or was meant to be assumed as a book about his life, but rather is simply a romantic chronicle or legend about a life which resembles, in some aspects, his life, but also contains legends, fables, madeup characters and events.....why wouldn't it be perfectly valid of him to do that? And when the book was published, if everyone wanted to jump to a conclusion that it was a 'memoir' and 'autobiographical' - what the hell, why would he have to make it clear whether it was or not? Let everybody think whatever they want to think!
Some of the myths about "Bob Dylan" originate with Bob Dylan (the boy who ran away and joined the circus, etc.) but some of them also now are just parts of popular culture, like folklore. And if a 'legend' is an unverified story handed down, handed down by who? Possibly the story has been handed down by us, by the media, by the biographers, by anyone who has ever in any way contributed to the myth of who "Bob Dylan" is - maybe he wrote about whoever that mythic person might be from his own perspective walking around supposedly part of that mythic 'identity.'
Or perhaps the 'myths' that have been 'handed down' have been handed down over all these years by Bob Dylan himself in his songs. It's assumed that the songs are frequently about him, his life, the people in his life, even as he has cautioned us time and again never to assume that's true, and has even said that particular songs that seem to be about his life or those close to him (ex.: "Sara") - are not. He has done the opposite of claiming the songs are autobiographical or confessional. If we assume the songs are simply thoughts, impressions or tales being "handed down" from him to his listeners, couldn't he then collect the unverified romantic or popular mythic material therein into a "chronicle" - something that gathers all of the various myths, romances, legends and stories into a chronicle - a compendium of all those things he's written about since he began to write songs? And this was simply another way to tell all some tales he's already sung, in a different way?
I'm trying to remember the content of "Chronicles" and having trouble but doesn't it include a mythic journey, encounters with fantastic and legendary people, references to the life of one considered to be a legend himself (Woodstock years)?
Maybe someone can find a quote from Dylan in which he calls it a 'memoir.' If not, or not particularly close, why
did we believe it was a memoir, or form of autobiography, other than because we wanted it to be that?
I'm not saying he fooled us. I'm saying this was just relating the kinds of things the songs have always been about but in a different form. There's no rule that says if your art takes place in one form, you must stick to that form. He has been painting and now exhibiting his paintings for years. Who's to say he couldn't put some of this into a prose format? That doesn't mean it was intended to be factual or accurate.
Maybe the publisher never cared it wasn't accurate because he made it clear to them he didn't consider the book to be an autobiography and wasn't calling it one. Maybe Bono has never cared about any quote Dylan attributed or appeared to attribute to him because he knows the 'Bono' in "Chronicles: Volume One" is a 'Bono-like' character in the myth contained in that book?
Dylan is endlessly inventive and has never been someone to be pinned down, or someone especially forthcoming about any details of his personal life. Maybe we assumed the book was about that because we hoped it would be. But did he ever claim it was?
If he didn't, can't the book at be at least partially fiction? Which means that he's not under any obligation (as Lehrer was) to relate anything truthfully or to be careful with quotes and facts? If it's a 'fiction' about a life somewhat like his own - why wouldn't he have a right to add, omit, or distort anything he wants -- as long as the book is what he intended it to be and satisfied him? That was presumably his only obligation. Certainly it did well with it's audience. Who didn't enjoy it? And there was substantial critical acclaim for the book, which was interesting and beautifully written.
Maybe we have been mistaken all these years.
Did everyone just impose these expectations on "Chonicles: Volume One" when nothing about his offering of this book justified the assumptions made about it being 'the truth'
Writers (by which I mean artists, not journalists) have created 'false documents' before - and presented them as factual or true stories or autobiographies, even though they weren't. He certainly wouldn't be the first writer to do that.
Does anyone know for sure that "Chronicles: Volume One" was meant to be factual?
"Somebody had to tell the tale" is not at all the same thing as somebody had to relate the facts....
